SW! What position did you have in the military?
E.S. I was a squad leader in First Battalion Fifth
Marines Weapons Company. I was attached to Bravo Company
while I was over there, and then I got transferred
to Charlie Company. I was in Third Platoon in First
Battalion Fifth Marines and we had a larger section
than the other three sections. We had the largest section
because we were gonna be doing the spearhead and the
others were on the edges, so they left us with six
more people than the other three squads because of
our mobility.
SW! How long have you been in the military? Did you
join just before the Gulf War?
E.S. Actually, I joined in '82 I had planned on going
to Annapolis and coming out a Marine Corps Officer.
I was getting married after graduating from boot camp,
and they said I couldn't have dependents. I wasn't
gonna change my wedding plans so they said, 'Well,
you can't go to Annapolis.' So I went directly into
the Marine Corps as enlisted. I did that for eight
years. I got forced out after the Gulf, and I did five
years in the Army National Guard.
SW! When you say forced out, what happened?
E.S. I was not allowed to re-enlist. I was recommended
for promotion, but due to cutbacks they said, 'Well,
we'd rather train somebody new than train you into
a different field.' My field was frozen. There were
no promotions available. They're supposed to give you
a one year severance pay, and I never got it.
SW! Tell us about the symptoms you've experienced.
E.S. I started getting rashes while I was in the Gulf-on
my forearm, my hands... I have four different types
of rashes. I'll get single dots. I'll get dots that
grow 5-12 in a straight line. They'll leave a scar.
I get circles. I get blotches. And they say it's all
one thing-an infection of the hair follicle. Well,
I don't have too much hair between my fingers. Sometimes
they sprayed for insects and the wind would blow. We
didn't know what it was. We'd just see the mist. We
were ordered to take the biological pills. We had an
NCO stand in front of us and watch us take these things.
It was mandatory.
SW! About the Pyridostigmine (PB) tablets, what reasons
did your superiors give for taking them?
E.S. That if we were exposed to chemicals, these would
already be in our system and it would help us fight
whatever symptoms that were gonna be ailing us. We
had all kinds of vaccinations on the way in, and some
while we were in country. It's also said that the burning
of pure crude oil, and breathing it directly one hour,
is worse than six months of being directly exposed
to agent orange. That adds up to some years off my
life. It was on CNN after we got back. Once I got over
there, I started just eating dust. I was having great
amounts of difficulty breathing. I have to breathe
through my mouth now. The doctors punctured the holes
bigger and tried to straighten my nose out a little
more. They cleared the passages in the back a little
bit. That lasted about two weeks and it was clogged
up again. The arthritis in my knee is so bad that if
I walk down a hill and I'm not braced, or if I'm carrying
something down the stairs, sometimes my leg gives out
on me. My hands are probably the worst, because my
hands and my head were exposed all the time. I'm also
severely light-sensitive. I was never light-sensitive
before. I'd go outside in the sunshine all day long.
Now I can't take the sun. I'm outside and I'll get
so sick. I'll mow the lawn and I'm done for the day.
I think the last time I got a sunburn was as a child.
I've had two severe sunburns since I've been back.
I had even put sunscreen on before I went out. For
my light-sensitivity, if I wear my contacts, I have
to wear sunglasses-and all my eye glasses are tinted
now. I get just absolute painful headaches. I was never
prone to headaches as a child or as a young adult.
After they took this lump off my head, for some reason
the headaches are more dramatic. Before, if I was to
bump that lump, I'd get a headache. It would last for
hours. If I wore a hard hat at my job and it was pushing
on it, the throbbing pain it would generate would be
excruciating.
SW! What did they say the lump was?
E.S. They just said it was a benign cyst. There was
no problem with it, but since they've removed it, I
get shooting pains. I can be driving along and it feels
like someone just stabs me with a great big fork in
the back of the head. I gotta pull over sometimes because
it just gets so bad. We actually slept in one area
where there were just thousands of dead animals everywhere.
We got there at night, so we didn't see the signs.
The next day they had all these signs up: 'Caution-Anthrax
Area'. Anthrax is not supposed to harm people. But who says?
SW! What about protective uniforms, gas masks...?
E.S. We did random gas mask drills. If you didn't have
your gas mask, your rifle, and at least one man to
lean on you at all times, you would drop and do push-ups
or have to do all kinds of extra duty, so I never was
caught without my gas mask. However, it didn't serve
me any purpose 'cause I wore it and I didn't have any
[corrective vision-Ed.] inserts. We ordered them at
least seven times when I was there. I was on the list,
but I never got my inserts. Our chemical alarms did
go off when we were in there, but then they would come
over the radio to say it was an error, a false alarm...
SW! Has anyone close to you experienced symptoms?
E.S. My wife, who I'm separated from now, started getting
rashes. I haven't talked to her since then, but she
went down to the VA hospital with me and she also goes
to her regular doctor.
SW! Have you taken the VA on over this?
E.S. I've been down several times, and they said I
had to register so I registered. They want to solve
one thing at a time. You know, 'We'll work on this
first, and then we'll work on this...' They're dilly-dallying
so much I don't even know if I'm registered for benefits
yet. I've talked to several vets at the VA while we
were waiting for treatment, most of whom looked worse
than me. A couple of the guys who were there-they looked
better than me a couple months ago. One guy who wasn't
there-he told me he thought I was full of bull for
the longest time. Well, now he looks worse than the
other guys. He physically cannot move. He has no job
anymore. I've talked to a couple people from different
jobs that I've had who have family that were over there.
One guy's, brother is already dead. One guy said his
brother has no problems except for major headaches.
One person said that his children are getting rashes
up and down their arms.
SW! Taking into account all of your experiences and
any kind of investigation you've done on your own,
what is your opinion of the cause, or the causes, of
Gulf War illness?
E.S. I would bet my next ten pay checks that we were
exposed to chemicals and/or biological agents. What
I want to know is: You knew all these chemicals were
there-they found them in the bunkers-so why blow them
up? If they're dropped on us out of their weapons,
the bombs are actually exploding. Explosions don't
dissolve them, so why blow them up? Where's the common
sense? It's like the oxymoron military intelligence.
When I joined the Army National Guard, I wanted to
know about the chemicals and stuff. I went to one of
the classes and I was talking to the gentleman who
was talking about how good the American suits are.
I said, 'You know, if they're so good, how come we
had the British suits? Are they better?' He said, 'No,
not even.' They're light-weight, easy to carry, easy
to fold, easy to pack, and they're cooler. You won't
sweat as much. Our suits weigh almost seven pounds.
Their suits weigh two and a half. That's a big difference
if you're wearing it and running around. They want
you to move fast and die quick. He said those suits
were totally worthless. I said, 'Then why did we have
them?'. He said, 'I don't really have a good answer
for you.' I said, 'That's what I've been hearing.'
SW! Why do you think the government is behaving the
way they're behaving in terms of dealing with Gulf
War illness?
E.S. Because they would pay out boucoup billions of
dollars for all the people who've been infected. They
would never be in politics anymore. I would say that
95% of the politicians right now would be gone. And
America would have to start from scratch, start all
over. Which is basically a thing I think we should
do 'cause most of 'em got their hands in dirty water.
In one way or another, they know what's going on. They're
just afraid to admit it. The only ones that seem to
be stepping forward are the ones that are coming short
on their sentences, or getting out of politics, or
are not up for election, so it doesn't matter. As soon
as they're up for election, they change their goals.
SW! What do you think people should do about the cover
up? What do you think is the next step? There have
been meetings and people are sharing information, learning
more about what's going on, trying to get it out to
a broader audience...
E.S. If we can get enough politicians that have enough
pull to side in our favor and go straight to the joint
chiefs and go straight to the congress and say, 'This
is what we found. Why won't you tell these people what's
going on? We need to get this thing straight.' I don't
see that can happen, 'cause no one wants to risk their
job. As soon as they make waves, the president could
say, 'next' and overrule it. Unfortunately, that's
how the system works. And if they do get kicked out,
they're gonna collect their full retirement. I served
eight years for my country and I don't see a dime.
SW! What do you think the potential is for support
from the general public, just ordinary people?
E.S. I think the majority of the people really wanna
know what the problem is and how many people are affected.
Almost everybody is. If we were to have hand-to-hand
contact for a while, you could get it. When my wife
started showing up with it, I wondered how many people
I've come into contact with. How much contact do you
need to pass it on? Does it strictly have to be sexual?
Can it be a mutual hand shake? Can you bump somebody
dancing?
SW! What would you say to the younger generation who
are being recruited now?
E.S. I've always been an avid military person. I grew
up with a military family, and I would still serve
my country again. I really would. But I would question
my orders. I would say, 'Check your orders before doing
your orders. You have that right.' You're supposed
to follow a legit order. If you have a problem with
your order, you're supposed to do it and take it to
somebody senior. Sometimes you get away with taking
it to someone senior before doing it. That causes some
flack. If it came to medicine, I think it should be
an individual's choice. If you don't want the medicine,
you shouldn't have to take it. I don't think medicine
should be mandatory. At least get it approved by the
FDA. If you are exposed and they give you medicine
to help you out, that's a different thing. If you're
not exposed, don't take the medicine.
SW! Has your overall opinion of the Gulf War changed
as a result of your experiences? Does it make you question
other things?
E.S. My opinion of the war is pretty much the same.
We went over there with a purpose. My opinion of how
the government treats it's troops has totally changed.
I swore to defend the constitution against all enemies
foreign and domestic. They're all domestic. There's
nothing we can do about it. You know, if Schwarzkopf
isn't having any problems, what medicine did he get
or not get?
SW! If the government knew what would happen even before
they did all this stuff, do you think they thought
it would be this big of a problem for them?
E.S. I think they didn't care. I think they figured
that most of us would be shot and killed anyway, so
it wouldn't be an issue. It was supposed to have been
the mother of all battles. They weren't expecting Iraq
to surrender in force. I question Congress more than
I question anyone else. Like I said, I would still
do it all over again because that's the kind of person
I am, but I want to know why.
SW! How much do you hold the military accountable for
what went down?
E.S. I hold the military at about 'two stars and above'.
They're responsible because they knew what was going
on. Once you get up there, they know they're getting
retirement pay. They don't care. They're fighting from
a board room across the world.